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  1. Colocado por: sergyioengraçado ver que a Alemanha foi quem menos cresceu naqueles itens todos!!! não deixa de ser irónico!!!
    Concordam com este comentário:jpfgarcia


    Foram os primeiros a violar o pacto de estabilidade, mas souberam logo arrepiar caminho.
    Concordam com este comentário: sergyio
  2. Colocado por: PeSilva48 horas. Grécia pediu 7 mil milhões de euros em financiamento
    /

    Isto sim é DIGNIDADE.
    Arranje aí uma moedinha para a bucha...
    •  
      FD
    • 7 julho 2015
    Colocado por: CarvaiIsto sim é DIGNIDADE.
    Arranje aí uma moedinha para a bucha...

    Nem por isso... faltou referendar esse pedido.
    •  
      jccp
    • 7 julho 2015
    endividaram-se,pediram dinheiro emprestado para pagar dividas,mas não fizeram reformas:resultado endividaram-se ainda mais até a divida ser incobravel.
    agora estão num beco sem saída como um animal acossado que tenta morder a mão de quem os tenta ajudar.
    De uma maneira ou outra o resultado está á vista e só não vê quem não quer ver,os grgos há muito que passaram a sua capacidade de pagar o que lhes foi emprestado e nós os portugueses vamos arrotar com parte da fatura.
    Quem lamenta a situação dos gregos ou anda de barriga cheia e as dificuldades passam-lhes ao lado ou então ainda não se dignaram a olhar primeiro para o que se passa neste país.
    só um pequeno exemplo garantido,há alunos a frequentar cursos em escolas que passam o dia inteiro na escola sem comer...isto não é um bitaite é a realidade por mim comprovada através de um familiar que é professor.

    Estamos há anos a fazer um esforço na esperança que a situação melhore...portanto eles que tivessem feito o mesmo.
    •  
      FD
    • 7 julho 2015
    Não à austeridade!

    Visto há pouco no Twitter:

    Due to VISA/Mastercard/AMEX and Paypal restrictions, Greece residents are not able to subscribe any more.

    https://twitter.com/online_fr/status/618425793228734464
  3. Vamos falar de algo completamente diferente da Grécia? Krugman escolhe Finlândia e... Portugal

    Para fugir “à depressão” de falar sobre a Grécia, o economista premiado com um Nobel volta-se para a exemplar Finlândia. Mas, afinal, este “modelo de sociedade europeia" perdeu 10% do PIB em oito anos - se não fosse a crise do sul da Europa, poderia ser apontado como “um desastre épico”. Depois, fala de Portugal, que seguiu a receita europeia de “austeridade dura” e está 6% mais pobre. No referendo grego, Krugman continua a votar “não”

    ...

    http://expresso.sapo.pt/economia/2015-07-03-Vamos-falar-de-algo-completamente-diferente-da-Grecia--Krugman-escolhe-Finlandia-e.-Portugal
    • eu
    • 7 julho 2015
    Colocado por: branco.valterDepois, fala de Portugal, que seguiu a receita europeia de “austeridade dura” e está 6% mais pobre.

    Sempre a mesma lenga lenga... de uma vez por todas, a função da austeridade não é fazer crescer a economia de um país a curto prazo. A austeridade é uma forma de equilibrar as contas do estado de modo a parar o crescimento BRUTAL da dívida e a tornar o país sustentável a médio/longo prazo.

    Afinal, para quem anda sempre a vociferar contra a austeridade, qual é a alternativa? Aumentar ainda mais a dívida?
    Concordam com este comentário: Bricoleiro
  4. Colocado por: Sergio Rodrigueshttp://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/economia/detalhe/islandia_saiu_da_crise_porque_nao_deu_ouvidos_a_ue_e_recusou_a_austeridade.html


    "Islândia saiu da crise porque "não deu ouvidos" à UE"...pudera, também não lhes pediram dinheiro emprestado!!!
  5. Colocado por: Picareta"Islândia saiu da crise porque "não deu ouvidos" à UE"...pudera, também não lhes pediram dinheiro emprestado!!!
    alguem emprestou!!
    •  
      jccp
    • 7 julho 2015
    Colocado por: Sergio Rodriguesalguem emprestou!!


    o FMI...a islandia tem 320 mil habitantes não pode ser comparado com nada...e além disso nem pagaram milhares de milhões aos depositantes holandeses e britanicos quando os bancos faliram.

    assim tb eu
    • eu
    • 7 julho 2015
    Colocado por: Sergio Rodrigueshttp://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/economia/detalhe/islandia_saiu_da_crise_porque_nao_deu_ouvidos_a_ue_e_recusou_a_austeridade.html

    TRETAS!

    A solução da islândia também foi a austeridade. E esse artigo tem lá várias referências a essa austeridade, nomeadamente:

    "arrancou mais de 10% da riqueza da Islândia em apenas dois anos e mais do que duplicou a taxa de desemprego para o nível recorde de 11,9%." O que é isto, senão uma redução do PIB (maior que o Português) e um aumento brutal do desemprego?

    "Recorde-se que, em 2008, a Islândia necessitou de recorrer ao FMI para obter financiamento, tendo sido dos primeiros países a ser alvo de um resgate na sequência da crise que teve início com a falência do Lehman Brothers." Olhem um resgate do FMI, que exigiu... medidas de austeridade.

    "e desvalorizar a moeda." Para quem não sabe, desvalorizar a moeda é equivalente a cortar salários e pensões. O resultado prático é o mesmo.

    "No entanto, a ilha manteve rigorosos controlos de capital desde 2008, e só agora começa a pensar eliminar as restrições que impossibilitam a livre circulação de fundos." : controlo de capitais

    Portanto, a ideia que a islândia não teve austeridade é... um conto de crianças.
    Concordam com este comentário: jpfgarcia
    • eu
    • 7 julho 2015 editado
    Colocado por: Sergio Rodriguesalguem emprestou!!

    O FMI.

    A diferença é que a Islândia CUMPRIU as medidas exigidas pelo FMI. A Grécia, não cumpriu nem pretende cumprir.

    Portanto, quando andam sempre a falar na Islândia, só estão a dar mais força ao argumento de que a receita do FMI deve ser seguida à risca.
  6. 3000 e tal posts
    os gregos são isto e aquilo e tatata.....e tanto se repete que a historia parece só ter a versão de caloteiros.
    triste esta falta de objectividade.
    que eu saiba eles já andam com a austeridade e a implementar essas tão desejadas medidas á pelo menos 4 anos e vê-se o resultado
    o que se andou a fazer aos gregos e não só, para mim é algo próximo da agiotagem. prontos fica aqui também um lado diferente de ver a coisa.
    • eu
    • 7 julho 2015 editado
    Colocado por: marco1que eu saiba eles já andam com a austeridade e a implementar essas tão desejadas medidas á pelo menos 4 anos e vê-se o resultado

    MENTIRA, MENTIRA, MENTIRA. Eles não implementaram a maior parte das medidas solicitadas pela Troika.

    Pelo contrário, a Islândia aplicou a receita do FMI e vejam o resultado.
    •  
      FD
    • 7 julho 2015
    Colocado por: marco1os gregos são isto e aquilo e tatata.....e tanto se repete que a historia parece só ter a versão de caloteiros.
    triste esta falta de objectividade.

    Vamos lá a isto.

    A ver se há paciência para ler tudo, encontra-se isto nos comentários da seguinte página: http://gizmodo.com/capital-control-cuts-off-greek-access-to-itunes-icloud-1715839063
    Vale a pena ler tudinho.
    É outra visão, de gregos mas, não daqueles que votam Syriza e OXI.

    DISCLAIMER: Personall opinions AND wall of text. If you want, take a peek. It will be interesting.

    Greetings peeps, your friendly Greek eyes on the ground here in Athens, Greece.

    Well, this is it. The proverbial it - as it happens.

    As you may or may not be aware, country has already defaulted its’ payments towards IMF. The recently elected government decided to play the chicken game with IMF - and guess who lost. This means that the country is closing its’ monetary borders more or less, right on top of the main tourist season (tourism being one of the last businesses that actually made something).

    Also, we will soon fail to pony up the cash towards the European Bank which means that there will be no kind of cashflow whatsoever - a full proper default which means of course that immediate liquidation of assets of the Greek state and a full haircut of everyone’s savings in the banks in order to start paying back.

    Right now, after some stagnation that has indeed happened with the previous governments and after deep austerity has significantly hurt the people (official unemployment rates of over 25%, and this number pushing to deep 50s for people under 30), the recently elected government decided to NOT implement reforms, NOT clear up the public sector and instead focused on a clearly “nationalistic” approach whilst “not getting a good deal with EU to keep funding up”, while on the other hand declaring that they will hire 30k people in the public sector (yeap, a party army).

    It’s more or less apparent that this was the plan all along as more and more signs fill up the puzzle that this whole thing was kinda pre-planned to get Greece outside Eurozone and return us back to a heavily effed up national currency (the return of Drachma? who knows at this point) which means that everything concerning technology and whatnot and everthing imported will be unreachable to us.

    One can give the argument that “hey, at least many people will have jobs and we will dictate our own currency policy” - but this simply means that in a country that produces nothing except services and exports almost nothing, we simply owe the same amount of money towards IMF and our other creditors, just in another currency.

    The way I see it, iTunes and paypal and whatnot will soon be the least of our problems - when e.g. our finance minister is declaring on national television that “our medical supplies can last for 4 more months and our fuel supplies for 6 months”, then, believe me guys, things are about to quickly get out of control.

    Now, I am not against the ruling coalition - after all, they are newly elected and although I didn’t vote for them, I wanted them to succeed, because governing for the first time *ever* means that eventually someone who is not in the payola that has been going on since the 80s (oh yes) could clean up house, wipe the slate clean and do something.

    Instead, we are quickly losing everything we have going for us - everything.

    I am not in a position to say “I am sorry” to anyone wanting to visit Greece. The beaches are still there, the ancient wonders and the historical monuments are still there and the sky is sunny as always. But I am very afraid you will not be able to visit because right now, noone can probably give you change or what not.

    Between you and me guys, I don’t even know what will happen. But look for us in the news, the situation here will soon get quite messy.

    And if you are so inclined, send a prayer for us, because, yeah, our leaders may be stupid, but the people shouldn’t suffer for it.

    DonPhelippe here, over and out for now. More on this as it develops.

    Case at hand: last elections. Ruling party leader promises to end the austerity and remove IMF and European Central Bank ruleship over Greece’s economy while SIMULTANEOUSLY keep Greece within the Eurozone AND also produce more jobs (how?). Screaming that Greece will stay in Europe (as if countries can teleport to other continents) and that Greece will stay inside the Eurozone WITHOUT doing ANY kind of reforms and necessary privatizations that should be long done deals.

    People buy into the lie - what can they do? Told you the numbers, 28% unemployment (official) and 50something% for people under 30, WHAT can they do but hope he could do it better, he and his much advertised bright and shiny Minister of Finance (who was mainly responsible for 6 months delays into talks of a new deal to start doing reforms and keep up IMF/ECB funding of Greek banks and state). The same Minister of Finance who said e.g. that it’s ok to have capital controls and that Greece has 4 months supplies of medicine and 6 months supplies of fuel left, and that back in 2010 said that Greece should default - but back then in January people were NOT aware he would do so much damage between Greece / EU relations.

    So yeah, people ARE sometimes stupid but, when you got nothing to lose, unemployed at 28 because THERE ARE NO JOBS AND NOONE DOES ANYTHING TO BRING FOREIGN INVESTORS TO THE COUNTRY, *what* will you vote, but someone who promises to end your despair?

    Of course the fact that this happened right now that is high tourist season, with tourists feeling insecure while they try to withdraw money and policement have to protect them, standing in line along with pensioners that have to make by with a 5% of their pension, not to mention the rest of the people who can only withdraw limited amounts of money due to capital controls, essentially crippling our only native industry still standing, well, it was.... most unfortunate?

    People buy into the lie because they want to believe the lie. It is effectively confirmation bias. The politicians who’re successful are generally telling people things that they already believe, they just want people to tell them that they’re right. You’ve got to have a very strong and persuasive personality to convince people to go completely against their nature.

    To me, if someone is trying to sell me something that sounds “too good to be true” then I’m wary right from the start. A whole lot of people, though, fall for it hook, line and sinker. Greek politicians, for decades, were telling people that they could retire early and that the government would take care of them (and not go after all those unpaid taxes). They could have their cake and eat it too. A whole lot of people along the way should have clued in that the numbers didn’t add up but everyone was being told exactly what they wanted to hear so they soaked it up and kept voting for everyone that was telling them that everything was great.

    So, yes, the situation today is unfortunate. Yes, the austerity measures suck donkey balls. But, Germany and the other countries loaning Greece the money didn’t create the situation that required Greece to need big loans. Even if you disagree with the way forward, the way into this mess in the first place is squarely on the people of Greece and the politicians they voted for.

    I don’t disagree one iota from what you say. The problem is that there is a generation that is now in their mid20s that all they know is unemployment and how good were the good old days, where the public sector employees got pension AT LATE 40s TO EARLY FIFTIES. So yeah, lots of damage in the mentality there. And instead of punishing those fuckers who destroyed the economy, both the governments and the people who traded votes for favours, they fucked up whats left of the private sector and its’ pensioners and still made sure to hire more public sector employees and again and again and again. Even this latest government, within less than 6 months managed to get under the rug some of their own in key positions (e.g. the boyfriend of a parliament-elect became CEO of public Water / Irrigation / Sewage Company whilst the Public Health made a little change in a law so that it “described exactly” his son and get him hired somewhere in the public sector - and this is just the stuff we know off).

    Everyone is after the fucking chair, eventually, the power and the money. But the people want to buy the lie because they have no other option - at least these guys on power havent ever governed before and all they stated was that they were looking after the people. Fucking our main industry (tourism), closing the banks, destroying all bridges with EU and EU financial institutions and then having a referendum just so they could pat themselves in their backs.

    Oh, and fresh news: this very morning, the Finance Minister quit - Is anyone still wondering, now? He made sure we are up to our necks in debt and then left the chair, because why not?

    If there is one thing this country COULD use is some proper guidance and change of attitude and mentality - but woe and behold little me, who sais that while having a proper job (in the IT sector no less, another screwed up business now that the banks are closed and our vendors abandon us the one after the other, understandably so) - for when I say these things out loud I am a traitor and enemy of the people.

    Seriously, is there anyone NOT TOO MUCH OF A CROOK THAT COULD GET ELECTED TO THE POWER AND STEER THE COUNTRY IN THE RIGHT WAY?

    Within Greece? I doubt they’d get elected. People (seem) to me to be too focused on returning to the “good old days” and nobody who wants to actually clean things up would be capable of attracting enough votes. This group got elected by pushing against austerity. What’s required is some austerity measures (not all) and the cracking down of all those unpaid taxes. But, who’s going to vote for the guy who says that? Very few people, that’s who.

    The problem is that the bankers aren’t going to loan you money unless they see you’re serious about repaying those existing loans and actually being capable of repaying future loans. The current government’s message is “fuck you” to the lenders so they’re not going to have a chance.

    Either you are Greek or you follow the situation here or simply you can say what I wanted to say elegantly and in as few words as possible. What will it be kind sir/madame?

    Also, yes, everyone yearns to the “good old days”, when Andreas Papandreou, fresh out of Berkley where he taught, son of former PM who was overthrown to make way for the military junta, and who had ties to the CIA and was given a ridiculous amount of money as loan by Morgan-Stanley came and took Greece by storm, with amazing rhetoric and lots of dough to support it - they were the days, where everyone could find a job at public sector, every Greek got his/her own car or two, a country house and whatnot, color TVs and what-have-yous. At least this is what the older generations remember - the younger ones think of “good old days” when Greece was boosted because of the Olympics, winning simultaneously the Euro soccer cup, the Euro basketball cup, the Euro song contest and the dough was thrown out of the window by truckloads, we are talking rich **** here, lifestyle magazines, everyone fashioned themselves as “directors” or “team leaders” or “department managers” or something.

    And suddenly, around 2008, the global crisis, in conjuction with a metric ton of loans fucked up Greece HARD, whilst even the most corrupt and crooked bankers of ours were publicly saying that a 4% amount of growth year-by-year is false and wrong - at least this is what the govs were saying to the outside world and until the crisis hit everyone was content and happy. We are talking about situations where I was leaving home for work and all the cafes were FULL, like choking full with people who didn’t want to go to work for peanuts (yes, really) and just waited for the next elections to support the winner and grab a job at public sector doing NOTHING (like sleep-at-work-come-whenever-you-want-leave-work-with-colleagues-to-go-to-fuck-hotels-nothing. YES REALLY).

    So, yeah, the 20somethings know that this was what was going on back then and now that unemployment screws them, because of course they STILL don’t want to go and do menial work and because still they are supported by their parents, they yell and scream and vote for the next unicorn - either that or vote for the radical rights, “God protects Greece because God is Greek and kill all immigrants because they steal our jobs” (for Yog Sothoth’s sake, the neoNationalSocialist party of Golden Dawn got a firm 7-8% in national elections - and these people actively hunt and kill immigrants, they have even killed a rapper who was singing against them).

    This more or less is the political scenery here, these days, may Illmater have mercy on our souls.
  7. Colocado por: euMENTIRA, MENTIRA, MENTIRA. Eles não implementaram a maior parte das medidas solicitadas pela Troika.


    Então não andavam para ai a dizer que a coisa até estava a correr bem e que foi o Syriza que veio estragar tudo?
  8. Colocado por: euA austeridade é uma forma de equilibrar as contas do estado de modo a parar o crescimento BRUTAL da dívida e a tornar o país sustentável a médio/longo prazo.

    Colocado por: euMENTIRA, MENTIRA, MENTIRA. Eles não implementaram a maior parte das medidas solicitadas pela Troika.



    Já a Grécia registou uma das maiores diminuições da despesa pública em relação ao PIB: um corte de 10,7% para 49,3% o que representa um rácio de 88,4 mil milhões de euros.

    http://economico.sapo.pt/noticias/despesa-publica-da-uniao-europeia-representa-quase-metade-do-pib_223021.html
  9. Eu estou-me maribando para os gregos. O P Coelho tirou-me cento e tal euros na minha reforma, mas todos os dias 10 de cada mês o dinheirinho está na minha conta. Por isso vou continuar a votar no mesmo gajo para continuar a dormir descansado. E assisto no sofá ás aventuras dos gregos e eles que votem em quem gostarem mais...
 
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